trkaiser wrote:

The ATV mag business is an honest place that's not ruled by corruption. Let's not let the facts get in the way of a good story, though.

cchagros wrote:

Just want to see things get better on the Forum, and if this is to happen, the parent magazine needs to be top notch. We wouldn't call you out if we thought it couldn't be done.

Is ther any way the existence of the forum could be better advertised in the mag? Maybe a little more page space??

Also, when you pick a forum quote to put in the mag, do you think it would be wiser to choose a post from a forum member who has actually posted more than once? If you go to some of the threads you quote, you will find that some of them are by new members who post once, then never come back. This usually results in the thread in question dying a quick death. theprincevaliant pointed this out to me last week.

By giving the forum more page space, maybe you could incorporate more forum member's photos as well. Vanity, like it or not, is a driving force when it comes to member participation. I'm not speaking for myself so much, as I've had a pic in the mag before, and prince got me and Warrior~Kid some blog exposure in recent months, but others might post more if they think they will get some recognition.

When you go on these trips, such as your one to Maine, why not announce it in the prior issue, or better, here on the forum? We have active forum member in New England, California,, Wisconsin/Minnesota, and even Montana who might have enjoyed riding with you, and contributing to your cause (the article). There were a few of us that would have met you in Maine, and ridden with your group. Surely chronicling forum member participation in these rides can only result in even more participation on the forum and support for the magazine. The forum could become more of a "club", rather than just a bunch of guys who randomly post. If the magazine could promote more organized rides, while reporting on riding areas, surely that would be more interesting for all of us. As an active member of this forum, I have probably organized more group rides and met more people in person than any other here. When I tell you that is the most rewarding aspect of being a forum member, I mean it. The tightest knit bunch on this site are the ones who have actually met each other in person. We should be promoting that.

This November, I am hitting up Matewan, WV, staying at the Bed n Breakfast there, and riding Hatfield-McCoy for five days. Why not promote this gathering in the mag during the summer months? Not only might you get non-forum-members to attend, but after meeting one another in person, we are sure to gain some new forum members out of the new found familiarity from meeting. It could make a great article for December's issue! I think the mag would benefit greatly from the direct involvement of its readers/forum members.

In closing, whats up with the blog? I still haven't heard anything about getting access as a blogger.

Regards,

-Chris

trkaiser wrote:

I'm getting Chris his login information to become an ATV Mag Blog poster as we speak, which will be a great addition and good reading for us all.

How much to incorporate the forum within the magazine is not a simple matter. Most similar mags, like the car pubs, don't include forum content in their books. Magazine forums are primarily there for the readers to congregate, talk about stories/related topics, etc..., without direct participation from the magazine staff.

princevaliant1975 wrote:

I am going to agree with Tom and Jerod on the issue of bias in the magazine industry. Some case studies with other magazine outlets back up their claims that "most" magazine staff are un-bias and tell the story about a product best they can (factual errors aside)

Case 1: Transworld Motocross and the now defunct QUAD magazine: Sparks helmets did a ton of advertising in both magazines (and probably others) Transworld staffers tested a few helmets they gave them. Staffers were able to break the chin bar by just pushing it with not much pressure into their stomachs as well as deforming the shell itself. Both magazines gave them a poor product reviews in the magazine (with pictures) Basically steering consumers away from the product. Sparks pulled their ads.

Case 2: MXA (Motocross Action): Back in 1999 when Cannondale was trying to enter the market with a full race 4 stroke motocross bike the MX400. Cannondale ads flourished in every dirt oriented magazine touting a bike that had yet to see the light of day. On paper the bike look like the future (our present) EFI, aluminum frame, 6 speed cassette type gearbox, reversed head with the intake in the front and exhaust in the back, claimed dry weight of under 220lbs (the Yamaha YZ426F, the only other 4 stroke motocross bike on the market, came in at around 240 dry). Well 2000 rolled around, bikes were sent out for testing MXA reported that the bike was one of the worst bikes they have tested out of the modern era. The bike came in heavier than the Yamaha YZ426, the EFI was erratic, the suspension was unbalanced and too soft, they broke multiple wheel hubs and the engine vibrated more than 2 strokes of the day as well as being slower than the YZ426. Cannondale pulled its ads from MXA.

So I tend to lean to wards the fact that magazines give their honest opinion regardless on who is fitting the bill. Remember any hint of impropriety and they could possibly loose other advertisers and potential ones if credibility (factual errors aside) is in question. I think the key to all this is the word "Opinion" that is all it is. As long as the facts and specs are listed correctly, any riding impression needs to be taken as straight up opinion and personal preference.

And in the interest of impartiality and disclosure. Yes I write for ATV Magazine's Blog, I am not paid, it is a volunteer position, I can write as much or as little as I please. They contacted me and asked me to write tips, and tricks for the site. I posted the link to the video and this thread on the blog without fear of being revoked. Factual errors are factual errors and it shows a lot of integrity to me that Tom and Jerrod take full responsibility for the errors and sounds like they are going to do some type of retraction or correction. That says a lot for integrity of a product to me.